Re: [Jack-Devel] JACK on mobile

On Thu, October 17, 2013 7:22 pm, John Emmas wrote:
> On 17 Oct 2013, at 04:19, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
>
>>
>> - There is a bug in jack source/sink which allows the buffer to grow
>> continuously
>> - There is an issue with realtime capabilities in jack source/sink that
>> needs to be debugged
>> - It would be useful to make several optimisations to PA to enable even
>> faster realtime processes like optionally bypassing the Stream Buffer
>> while JACK is running but that will require some major design changes to
>> the PA graph and also some threading work to split out control and
>> audio.
>>
>
> Patrick - as a disinterested observer it seems to me that you and Paul are
> talking apples and oranges here.  Your focus is entirely on the technical
> challenges involved whereas Paul is questioning the market viability -
> i.e. what evidence is there that users want to run pro-audio apps on
> mobile platforms?.
>
> Remember that Jack is little more than a facilitator.  It doesn't do much
> that's useful in its own right.  Even if you could get to the stage where
> Jack was running acceptably on the desired platforms, more people would
> need to come forward to build the apps (or to adapt existing ones).  Or to
> put it another way, Jack would be just the first step on a long journey.
> Assuming you could find someone who'd take that first step, is there any
> evidence that others would take up the baton and run the rest of the way?
>

I agree that this is a fair point. Today Android has a near monopoly on
the global market and iOS swallows up the rest in regards to professional
multimedia. I'm not sure which app store has the highest number of apps.
Didn't Google recently announce they had broken the 1 Billion mark? Or was
it Apple?

However, IMO the single biggest contributor to the success of Android is
the Samsung marketing department and they are now putting a lot of weight
behind Tizen along with Intel and several other prominent mobile
manufacturers. Tizen is backed by the Linux Foundation too and they are
seeking to create/maintain a *truly* open Linux mobile platform.

The modern mobile market is very dynamic and rapidly changing. Palm was
first, Microsoft followed with CE, they had huge market share for a while
but Nokia was dominant across the full spectrum, then came Apple with iOs
and they held the throne for a few short but impressive years, now it is 
Androids (Google/Samsung) turn. That won't last forever. Samsung competes
directly with Apple, Google and Nokia. Google are currently in the process
of ramping up a $500mil marketing campaign for their new Motorola product
line. Apple will not stand aside and Samsung are gunning to replace Google
as the biggest company in the word. The Koreans would absolutely love to
be the first to break the trillion dollar market capitalisation barrier.
It would be a huge boost to their national pride in the same way hosting
the FIFA world cup was. I was there during that period and it was a unique
experience to see the whole country respond in the way that they did. I'm
sure we all remember the chanting at the Korean matches and the sea of
red. Psychological warfare at the highest level.

In addition Canonical are also making serious moves with Ubuntu Mobile,
Firefox OS is on it's way to low cost devices, Jolla is finding it's way
onto devices and HP have been making rumbling noises about being in direct
competition with Microsoft so there is a high likelihood they will
redirect their attention to webOS which they made completely open source
about 6 months ago.

The mobile market is definitely not going away anytime in the near future
and is a significantly larger and more dynamic market than desktop
computers representing a huge opportunity for us developers too.

Don't forget that Valves, SteamOS is running Linux and they are taking on
the console market directly too which also means the TV market and home
entertainment in general.

There is also the automotive market. There are at least 2 prominent and
high end car companies that openly run Linux OS's and multimedia is a huge
part of the automotive experience. They have very hard time limits in
order to meet IEC standards compliance. 50ms for round trip from Bluetooth
headset to speakers and back again for hands free audio.

>>
>> As i said in the opening message there is a possibility that the Linux
>> Foundation could be interested in funding the development process if we
>> can come up with a viable plan.
>>
>
>
> I've never had any dealings with the Linux Foundation but I'd imagine that
> any plan would need to stipulate who's going to carry on the work, after
> their own initial funding.  Those are the people you need to find and get
> on board.  If you could identify some people who'd fund (or volunteer to
> do) the rest of the work (subject to the Linux Foundation funding the
> initial Jack step) I think you'd have a far stronger case.
>

FYI, I am in contact with the Linux Foundation and *so far* they have been
supportive of my stated goals. However I am only a cog in the wheel so if
other people are behind this project I'm sure that will help if we get to
any kind of negotiations or requests for demo hardware.

As it stands various Pulse Audio developers particularly Tanu Kaskinen
(Intel) and David Henningson (Canonical) are putting some thought to the
issues that have been identified. I'm sure they will appreciate some
positive feedback on a purely technical level. The issues involved are
pushing the limits of expertise and they are not for the faint of heart
;-) After all we are talking about the most optimised system possible
within this modular framework that we have constructed.




--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd

1382166629.19384_0.ltw:2, <60895.86.105.94.1.1382166622.squirrel at boosthardware dot com>