Re: [Jack-Devel] JACK on mobile

On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 10:13 PM, Patrick Shirkey <
[hidden]> wrote:

>
> the lower layer and provide ease of use for developers and users. This
> would also benefit desktop Linux users who run PA too (everyone running
> Gnome or KDE) and make the option of running JACK and PA at the same time
> a more reliable and efficient process.
>

There are no real issues with running PA on top of JACK when you combine
the right version of PA with the right version of JACK. I'm not sure what
problems you think exist - it would be interesting to hear about them. As
far as I understand it both PA and JACK developers consider this a done
deal in each technology, but one subject to distribution/platform
capabilities to make it work or make it fail.


>
> The discussion has so far been around what needs to be done to make it
> viable for JACK to be included as an officially supported app
>

Work apparently. From your opening message in this thread:

  "The optimisations that would enable PA to work better with JACK are not
trivial and will require some pretty heavy thought and a fair sized chunk
of time commitment to make them happen."

It sounds as if you want someone to do some work on this for no other
reason that mobile platforms are cool, or something. Oh, except it doesn't
actually the MAJOR linux-y mobile platform at all. There is already a
massive shortage of resources to put towards JACK development. Maybe some
one new will take up your call to arms, and if so, great. Really.

But looking at the "existing" JACK development community as if this is
something that anyone here is obligated (or frankly, even likely) to be
interested in ... well, to me it is just silly.

You talk below about "various consortiums of large multinational companies
that would be supporting this step" - why don't they create a paid position
to do whatever it is that needs doing, away from the noise of this list. It
would be more efficient, and more likely to get someone to actually do it.

The thing is Patrick, you are talking platforms with tiny market share.
JACK is a community of people focused mostly on music creation and
pro-audio. The market you are talking about (in terms of devices) is close
to meaningless. Linux isn't a big enough market already for this stuff
(barely) and now you want to sell us on various secondary linux-y mobile
platforms as the new big thing? Sorry, I'm not buying it. I'm not trying to
be antagonistic, but you write about this stuff as if it ought to be bloody
obvious to everyone how awesomely cool this is. All I see are more variants
on meego or whatever that end up with essentially no market and certainly
none of the excitement that exists within the iOS music creation/pro-audio
community.


> I disagree that in order to run JACK on the OTHER mobile OS's that already
> run PA by default we need to create and pay for a whole new audio system
> that replaces both PA and JACK. That is the path that Google have taken
>

Actually, the seem to have gone further than that, unfortunately.


> with both Android and ChromeOS and they have not succeeded with several
> full time and well funded developers working on the task.
>

They don't understand the issues, at least it appears to be that way.


>
> However if the consensus from JACK developers is that they want to build a
> completely new audio system rather than spend any time on optimising the
>

Not a new audio system. All Linux based systems have access to a perfectly
viable audio subsystem. Its name is ALSA. Mobile platforms just want to
avoid exposing it (or even using it). Why? And why should we have to cater
to that?


> combination of PA and JACK then I will report that back to the interested
> and supportive parties who have opened the door to us and let them know
> that unfortunately, due to political and personal objections it is very
> unlikely JACK will ever be able to be officially supported to run on any
> OTHER mobile platform than iOS.
>

It cannot run on iOS anymore. You missed the news, apparently.


> Or is the hatred of PA so ingrained  that all JACK developers are blinded
> by their desire to see it vanquished from the earthly realm? The ongoing
> quest for spiritual freedom of not having to run PA on any desktop system
> ever? The righteous quest of holy armagiddeon. The existential threat of
> PA dominion. <rant>....</rant>
>

This is just stupid. I think PA is a pretty awesome system. In some ways, I
may even be responsible for its adoption, having urged this very early at
Ye Olde Linux Desktop Architects meetings back in the early 2000s. I have
nothing but respect for PA. My respect is tempered with an understanding of
its deliberate design limitations, which happen to be roughly opposite
those of JACK.

Instead of asking for volunteer help, why don't you try to actually hire
someone?

--p

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